![]() |
Best 9mm defense round?
Hey everyone...
Obviously I'm getting JHP, but the question is: What's better-- subsonic or +P+? I'm leaning toward subsonic because I'm guessing it has less wall penetration. Opinions? |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
I'd probably go for the gold dot +P's you can find at gunbroker.com for $220/1000. That's I guess my opinion based on price/performance though not purely performance.
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
1 Attachment(s)
You'll need these rounds for terrorists. Says so on the box.
NOOB |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
used to be 124 grn hydrashok jhp
I can only think of one reason to use subsonic and it's not ballistics, its if you're using a can |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
I like the 124 grain HydraShock in my 9mm pistol. They feed well, are accurate, and so far very reliable over all.
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
hmm.. looks like federal hydra-shok is twice the price of the speer gold dot... they have the same specs that I can see.
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/...47gr%209mm.jpg
The 'T' in 'RA9T' is for Talon, as in Black Talon, which this ammo replaces. The 'Law Enforcement Ammunition' line is there just to impress the easily impressed. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Can you find some 9mm in .45? :D:D:D
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Magsafe and Glaser are the out and out best if over penetration is a major worry as in a poorly constructed apartment. The risk Vs return on this isn't such that I'd go with either of these.
The most important thing is shot placement. Even 115gr fmj will tumble but a non-critical hit is not ever going to be a reliable stopper regardless of caliber or bullet design. With that out of the way I like Golden Saber, Gold Dot and 147gr Winchester Personal Defense. SXT, Hydrashock and others are good too. There's noting wrong with +P if your gun can handle it and it's well known 9x19 was designed to be loaded hotter than average here in the US and is so-loaded in Europe but fractional inch expansion that may look good in paper should never come at the cost of fast, accurate shot placement. If +p makes your gun unpleasant to shoot or interferes with your accuracy then go with something else. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Looks like gold dot is it.
BTW, I shoot a GLOCK 19. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
The main thing is to shoot enough to be familiar with your pistols. Shoot 100 rounds of ball ammo every couple of months and finish up with a few rounds of the expensive stuff just to see how it compares. Hopefully you have access to an outdoor range where you can shoot a bunch of distances and target types, falling metal plates are fun.
Any of the premium defense rounds today will be fine. 9MM is light for my taste but it works with shot placement. Stay in the 115-125 grain range. If you want to get really good, start competing in one of the action pistol disciplines. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
:beer: |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Thanks again guys. Just won an auction on GunBroker. Great site, I wonder why prices are about 2-5X higher in EVERY local gun store?
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
so if you arent a noob and you go into a gun shop, the only way they give you a discount is if you are a regular and you are ready to move some weight, and the noobs aint watchin. shotgun news is a good publication if you are buying a lot of guns and ammo. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
My choice is to alternate power ball with hydroshock
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Be advised that the EXTREME SHOCK only applies to the cost, not to the effectiveness.
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
I know the heavier 9mm offerings have gotten better but I just can't get enthusiastic about them. And even a high quality 115 grain JHP feels a little too light. So I personally carry the Ranger 127 grain +P+ load. Certainly has a proven street record in the LEO community.
G |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Relying on a 9mm parabellum pistol to stop a fight is a gamble.
I bought my first and only 9mm in 11th grade, a P35 Browning Hi-Power. Cost $104, Belgian made, came with the zippered rug like my Challenger. Sold that gun, both actually, a couple years later. Never owned another 9mm. The 9mm is a utility round, not a fight stopper. In these Final Moments, while you can still buy A Proper Pistol, one you will trust your life with; my vote goes to the 1911 Colt design in .45acp. You want a heavy bullet, with a flat point to stop a threat to your life at pistol range. Better yet, buy a 44magnum and handload for it! A flat-point 240 grain bullet at 1000 fps is very controllable, even for some women. The Charter Arms Bulldog is still in production. Load your own .44spl ammunition with the goal of launching that big flatpoint bullet with all the velocity you can handle. Big Bullets stop fights. Big Bullets kill game. All the practice and expertise cannot compensate for insufficient bullet mass. You pretty much have to do the job with your first blow, because you may get no additional ones. 45 or 44 have the torque to do the work. If you take your personal weaponry Seriously, don't compromise on cost or caliber. I am sure you can find lots to do with that 9mm Para. Just don't trust your life to it. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
I'll listen to this Navy Seal Instructor though regarding the 9mm caliber: <object height="350" width="425"> <embed src="about:blank" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object> He's a Seal Instructor, so he is not speaking hypothetically. He knows less recoil = greater accuracy. Accuracy is going to dictate whether your target goes down or not in a timely fashion, not the size of the hand cannon. A .50 Cal Desert Eagle is great, but if you miss with the first shot, you are going to have a lot of fun getting a follow-up shot on target in a split second. For concealed carry the 9mm is great, you get a lot of mag capacity you just don't get with a .45. Those extra rounds can mean the difference between life and death. They also don't fly forever or over-penetrate things. The 9mm recoil is also very controllable which promotes better accuracy in rapid shooting, which is precisely what happens in most firefights when people unload on each other. I, like a lot of people have a harder time with the recoil on say a Colt .45. The only exception to this would be a HK Pro SOCOM Mark 23 Mod 0 .45 which handles the recoil exceptionally well, but it is a massive gun and totally unsuited for civilian carry use. (Unless you want to scare the bejeezus out of everyone around you). There is however a "compact" version the HK USP in .45ACP .40 and 9mm, which is about the size of a more regular service pistol. I have never shot a .45 version of a USP though, just the SOCOM, which is a wonderful handgun to shoot. http://www.hkpro.com/socom.htm A good compromise is the .357 SIG in say a P229, or a .40 GLOCK. Now the .357 and larger calibers will penetrate things, so you must be aware of this. What the 9mm won't do for you, is shoot through car windscreens effectively or barriers, but this can also be part of the appeal for safety. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
The FBI changed their minds and their standard after Miami. Which led to the 10mm and then the .40 S&W. Just as important, it changed the way the bullet makers designed and constructed their bullets. The Ranger SXT, Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, and XTP's (among others) have revolutionized terminal performance with handguns. If we restrict ourselves to such top level ammo, there is no statistical difference in actual street shootings with 9mm, 40, or 45 ACP. Because of that, I now recommend that people pick the gun model/design that they shoot well before caliber selection. If the gun you shoot the best only comes in 9mm, don't worry about it. Just use the top shelf ammo and be happy. If you shoot the 1911 the best and can conceal it, more power to you and enjoy .45 ACP. (It isn't like .45 ACP is either equal or superior in all categories anyway. Tactical penetration has always been a problem in the caliber.) I carried a .44 Special for years. Wanted that big bullet. I'm a very experienced shooter and recoil doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other. The S&W M296 was just what I wanted. But people change over time. The one auto that I fully appreciated was the H&K P7M8. Just couldn't afford one. I finally managed to buy one a year or so ago. I tried out some of the premium 9mm, settled on the Ranger load, put the M296 in the safe and started carrying the P7. I'm perfectly happy with the gun and the caliber. Quote:
G |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
We use much less expensive wadcutters if we want to shoot targets. From the Magsafe site http://www.magsafeonline.com/magnum_performance.html Quote:
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Maybe in "Expert" hands, a 9mm parabellum is "capable".
How many Expert, or Distinguished Master shooters carry a 9mm, unless required to by their employer? Who knows? What is an "expert" pistololero? Somebody who paid to sit at Jeff Cooper's knee at the real Gunsite? (What color was that?) We all trust our lives to our decisions. When I gave my life to God, I died unto this world. Yet I have been Given Witness to prepare and use firearms. Point is, my trust is not in a ctg, bullet, or my ability. The pistol is a tool of last resort. I can carry any handgun openly or concealed where I live. Often I carry a .454 Casull which is about as close to a rifle on the hip as I can find in a repeater. If I am anticipating a fight, (which I have never had), I prefer a rifle, and carry one. But if the fight comes to me it will be a close range affair and I want a center of ribcage stopper. Armed with a Desert Eagle 44mag or a 454 Casull extends the odds in my favor by about 100 extra yards over the 9mm guy. I realize you guys live in places where you carry in defense of your life from other humans who might prey on you. Anyone fancying themselves as a survivalist in that environment has missed the concept entirely. If you live somewhere that you are likely to be prey; you need to move! Like the survivalist who lives a mile from a SAC airbase. I have read the arguments that the 125gr JHP .357Mag +P round is equal to the .45acp. Maybe. Except recoil is ferocious, and the K frame or J frame revolvers used to launch such loads cannot take continuous service of these loads. The 45acp in a 1911 is just so much more manageable, has less shockwave and is less mentally occupying to deliver each shot. Maybe YOU can outshoot Ed McGivern but most of us can't double-action six shots into an ace of spades in two seconds. Technology seems to make the 9mm a capable performer. Yet, if the police depts cared about their LEOs, they'd allow them a more capable ctg. But, for political reasons, the 9mm is their boy. Where do you place your trust? Heavy bullet, manageable recoil, target accuracy, functional excellence. Or is your reliance in technology and others' reports? Remember, you get only one instance to make The Correct Choice. Maybe a 9mm is good for shooting dogs, snakes and other vermin you don't have to be sure will die right away, but... Keith tells the story of the black cowpuncher delivering a herd to Chicago whom the RR cop mistook for a criminal and began shooting with a luger. The black cowhand said, "Is you through white boy?" and then killed the cop with a 45Colt. Keith said he lived long enough to tell passersby who the cattle belonged to and how to get in touch with the Montana rancher he represented. Most gunfights occur at close range, and happen Real Fast (so I'm told). If you need more than 6 rounds, better carry another clip or speedloader. More importantly, why are you letting some stranger get close enough to do you harm without a real weapon in your hands? |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
money, replay
Quote:
I have heard from old men who were in numerous gunfights in their youth in West Texas stories close to your story. With pre glaser and magsafe ammo, the smaller calibers might eventually kill your assailant, but not before he also killed you. But a 44 or 45 stopped them. A guy who survived being shot more than once said when shot with a 45 he was paralyzed with shock and unable to return fire. He survived because other ranch hands covered him. I have an 1893 Colt single action I am very sentimental about. But ammo advances have changed things and you can go below 40 now and still have true stopping power. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
Hydra-shok is great, but if you think you need to penetrate hard surfaces to get to the BG, then you need "Tactical Bonded" ammo. It will pierce car skins/glass and still expand in soft tissue. |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
|
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
9mm is easily concealed in a pocket while your 44mag is probably in your pickup truck. :dontknow: there is a reason why this thread topic is 9mm |
Re: Best 9mm defense round?
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:14 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM